WTF Google OR Why I Don’t Call Myself an Expert
Lemme start with the latter. I don’t call myself an “expert” for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that I’m sick of the bull$#!t out there on the internet that says, “You must become an expert in your field and then people buy from you.” The whole point of it is, of course, to profit…
So everyone’s a #@#%$!! prophet or expert in their field. The IM and SEO niches are notorious landfills full of “experts.” How do you become one? Simple. You tell everyone you ARE one.
Come up with a faux case study and enough people may just believe your jive turkey and clicky click ka-ching, you’re in like Flynn, whoever the hell he was.
“Lookee! JamestheJust is a freaking expert!” Uh – stop the presses.
I Am Not An Expert and Google Proves It
Say what? Well – if you read my friend Carrie’s blog, when she feels like posting – this conversation sorta started there. I’m not the BS artist I’m supposed to be (I am in sales, after all – what am I thinking?!).
Google proves over and over that SEO is a level playing field, and I have no freaking idea what the Sam freaking hell is going on but really…it’s screwy.
Sorry about the lingo, you might understand in a minute. I might also just lose all IM sales period: that’s OK. I’d rather have the reputation for being that crazy stupid honest non-guru guy who tells it like it is than some schmarmy schumck-truck pitching his wares to anyone who’d listen.
Here’s the deal: I make a living – a healthy, fun living – on a website that used to have over 30 #1 rankings for my main longtail keywords. These keywords are product-based keywords.
They are 3-5 words long, and it was easy enough to get rankings. You find a product and link it. Spin and submit articles. The stupid thing is that everyone in IM knows what I know:
There are precious few “secrets” you don’t already know by now.
The trouble is that everyone knows by now. I guess that’s the trouble, I dunno – but here’s the deal: I only built links using, well…
everything.
I have link diversity. I have anchor text diversity. I have domain age of 2 years and going or just about that now. I have high and low PR links. I have plenty of natch links, manual links, non-automated and automated links.
Whoops. Yeah, like that’s a surprise…
The TWO things I did on vacation:
Ran SENukeX with the first module, simply creating accounts to use on various social sites and article directories…
I used PaidBackLinks.com…
And I’m not sure if one or both of these things killed my site…
Whoops! I let the cat out of the bag. Anyway, the rankings were all 1-10 (yeah, I had some on the second, third and fourth pages of Google, too)…these are the rankings I’ve held for a while. My recent linking “dripped” out except the SENukeX profile creation (which didn’t even have articles sent through them yet for this site) – but this sort of thing doesn’t usually happen.
Analytics Shows a Drastic Drop in Traffic
No surprise, really. I lost great rankings, with that went the traffic.
I’m not sure what the issue is, but I’ll tell you what I’m doing about it, and I’ll tell you more about results later.
In the meantime – here’s the plan:
1) Put AdSense back up – the site started off as an AdSense site and this is a theory of mine anyway. I think AdSense DOES impact ranking – like it helps you get your sites indexed. At this point I have nothing to lose anyway.
The ads were up on supporting pages, I’ll do it again.
2) Take off all analytics programs that have ties to Google. This is silly that I haven’t yet, but again: this is another theory and a lot of IMers go with StatCounter or GetClicky or whatever.
3) Using more social signals, and NO text links. What I mean is PaidBackLinks.com specifically, since it’s the only thing I’ve done drastically different.
Look – I’m not sure why this is happening but I do know that this is the only “new” thing I’ve done for links in a while: and NONE of my other sites (of course) have been affected by any weird rankings shift BUT this one site I’ve sent the PaidBackLinks links to…
So it’s my number one theory at the moment.
I’m not interested in isolating the one thing or one cause of this issue: I’m interested in getting my living back, because this one just hit me in the wallet like a mallet to the face.
4) Building plenty of other sites besides this one. OK, not “plenty” but I have three in particular that are going to be a lot more year-round vs. this one that’s in a “cold weather” type of niche (sorta).
Diversify my income so that I’m not depending on this one market or site anymore (which I’ve complained about for a while but sat on my tail about).
5) Using BuildMyRank as soon as I’m done with the SENukeX bonuses. I’m trying two other backlinking methods, too…
6) SocialAdr is a social bookmarking site where other members share your stuff on their accounts – I think it would have a better chance of getting accepted bookmarks versus an automated tool like Bookmarking Demon, and frankly I have crappy internet where I live (a lot of downtime with my ISP)…
So if I can use a service like this one but have a pretty automated way of getting links that look a lot more natch, then I’m game. I’ll tell you how it goes…
7) Kristi Hines wrote an ebook called the Ultimate Blog Promotion Guide, and frankly it’s so whitehat you’d have to question my loyalties…It’s not a secret that I use tools like Article Marketing Robot (and I plan on another few blasts with that as well), I use The Best Spinner…
Kristi’s book is written from the perspective of a blogger who knew how to leverage social media without being software dependent. She’s not a link builder like I am: she’s written a pretty in-depth book that covers 100% whitehat methods to get your blog post (or in my case, my reviews to products) shared in the social sphere naturally.
I mentioned it once or twice, but the difference is that I’ve actually READ the thing and I was exhausted after reading it.
In fact, my first impression after reading it was that it is essentially a book about building a network of social types to help you in key promotions…So you can’t deploy the methods every single time you post. I also thought that this would take work…
But so does link-building. The book covers more than that, it’s specific about a lot of free ways (some paid) to promote a post, and yeah you can use it in affiliate situations, too.
Anyhow, if you like to actually network, the book’s for you – or if you, like me, have a sudden concern that Google’s just got their knickers in a knot over your lovely rankings…
Well – then it’s something to consider. It’s $37 and in my case, I needed a primer to get my head around specific ways to go about promoting a blog or website without fear of repercussion.
BTW, it is listed last here not because it’s the last thing you should do: but it’s something I will put into action AFTER I do all the above. In my case, I’m still going to build links the easy way first…
But for anyone wondering about my sudden rankings loss (around May 10th), you might seriously want to give your business model a re-think and investigate safer modes of ranking and promoting. If you have a network of actual people that have your back in promoting your posts, then don’t worry – this book won’t help you (much).
I found value in the fact the ebook essentially gave me a new perspective on internet marketing practices, a peek into something that is brand-new to me because I’m used to building a myriad mix of links with tools and ranking that way.
With rankings shifts this drastic, I’m more than willing to listen to alternatives like Kristi’s blog post promotion book.
I’m being dead honest here: this has shaken me up because my biggest fear is losing all I’ve built up and then having to slug it out as a freelancer again…I know what that’s meant in the past. It’s not the life for me, at least not how it was in 2010.
So here I am and truthfully, I have to say:
WTF Google?!
The last TWO times this site’s had rankings shifts like this, the rankings came back within 48 hours, maybe 72 at most.
I might post that this is all a fluke (in fact I’m actually praying to eat crow pie and say, “Wow that sucked for a week but now it’s all back right-side up”)…but I dunno.
It’s been 5 days this time, and I’m not sure there’s going to be a reprieve. As far as I can tell, there’s no “official” penalty that Google’s admitting to, and honestly other than building links before building another site, I’m not sure I can rescue it.
Is one site worth it? Well – it made me over $5k on its own in one month not that long ago.
I’d say that’s worth it.
To say I’m panicked is dead on – I am. So here’s two things I know for sure:
1) Kristi’s book will give me referral traffic if I implement it - so will guest posting which is also on my agenda **adding that in**…being dependent on ONE traffic source (SEO and ranking in Google) IS STUPID.
So although I’m focusing on SEO, I’m going to be working a lot harder on guest posts for this and all sites (can anyone say, “Amazonian Profit Plan told you so?”). I’m also looking into Dave and Lando’s idea of “Niche Domination” by purchasing expired domains with high-ranking PageRank for links…
I’m game for change, I just need to know what’s going to pay off in rankings, traffic and sales. BTW, If you’re wondering where to guest post, try the CommentLuv Network blog to start with – they take just about any niche as I understand…
2) I’m not an expert. Don’t take my word for it – or anyone’s – because Google will do what Google wants to do at any given moment, without explanation.
If you JUST listen to ME, you’re not an expert, either. Seriously, check out my blogroll. Nobody has SEO in Google “licked” and that’s final – there are NO guarantees.
That’s awful-sounding but it’s reality. The only guarantee is that at some point, Google feels nauseated with your top rankings and pukes you out.
At
any
time.
Expect it and you’ll do fine.
Solution? Experiment yourself. Diversify. Test stuff out. Read a lot of people, not just me – I’m really NOT an expert and I’m sick to my stomach that anyone would follow my advice and get the same sorry short end of the stick of Google’s ugly stick.
Don’t think anything I write is set in stone, it’s NOT.
I build links and rank sites the way it’s worked for me, and there is NO real reason that right now I should have had a penalty: there are pages that have not had ANY action from ANY backlink service that are now “indexed” but no longer in the top 200…
So there’s no rhyme or reason. My overall network is otherwise unaffected. There’s no pattern. No “notice” or email, no warning…nothing.
I have no real earthly idea WTF is going on, and that’s that. What I think is that PaidBackLinks may be a culprit – or for all I know, my rankings will come back right when I publish this. I hope that happens, actually…I don’t mind looking stupid, I just want my rankings back.
If not, I’m jacked.
The other thing that’s changed is my IP address since the change to HostGator…from a shared hosting at some lame host or other to a reseller account at HostGator…but no other site in my network has shown any signs of rankings shift.
So like I said: I’m not an expert. When I know something changes, I’ll tell you – right now I’m working to rectify something that may be too far gone for salvage, who knows?
Nothing new really. It’s a Google thing. They like you, you rank well…then one day they eat a burrito, they get gas: you lose because the algorithm has indigestion and you’re the irritant.
You’re expelled like so much flatulence and all you know is that it smells like Google’s colon cleanse.
Listen to me or don’t – I hope to have some sort of case study out of this fiasco. Better yet, my living back…
Thanks for readin’. BTW, this means I really am taking some time off to get this situated. Time to work 72 hour weeks for myself until this thing improves.
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Maybe I’ll finally get you to admit that IM isn’t easy?
I’ve tried to check in on some forums and looks like there are many people that have been hit lately. The common theme – none. You are not the only one who has lost rankings on an established site. On the bright side, some speculate that Google is tweaking and things will normalize in the future so waiting things out may not be bad.
Some things I have heard postulated that you may want to consider also are tag/category pages (dup content) and too many aff links per page. I wouldn’t move on those now, but just something to consider long-term.
Oh yeah, I’ve heard some people having bad luck with BMR, I’ll see if I can find that thread and email you. May want to tread lightly there.
Anyway, sorry this has happened. I know how elated you were to give up freelancing and have more time for your family. I’ll shoot up some prayers for you :)
Carrie recently posted..April 2011 Earnings
IM looks easy. :)
This will be the third time I’ve cried ‘wolf’ on this site, but this time’s different for a lot of reasons so far, not the least of which is the 200+ spots that a lot of “Wait, I didn’t even touch those pages?” have suddenly taken…so I’m not entirely convinced PBL is a bad resource, but I know that algo changes have, in times past, affected my other sites.
It’s just frustrating.
Thanks for the BMR tip…I seem to have missed that headline, I should’ve emailed you first anyway. I’m not going back to freelancing if I can help it, at the same time I’m not sure I’ve got tons of alternatives unless Google decides to quit eating burritos.
BTW, I had the village idiot email me, “That settles it: the most affiliate links in one post!”
Clearly he hasn’t read my other posts…
Well, I can’t find the BMR thread so take what I said with a grain of salt.
I’m still trying to find the other threads where people are speculating based on their experiences. The problem is always the same though, too many variables to figure out a common cause(s).
Carrie recently posted..April 2011 Earnings
Things are certainly interesting right now! Although I must admit that I haven’t seen a huge change over the past few months with most of my sites (except the one I tanked purposely). In fact, last month was my best earnings month ever, traffic is up across the board, and my A100K sites have been ranking quite well following my usual backlinking plan.
Still, I’m not ranking sites high as fast as I would like either. Generally I’m just seeing slow growth in the SERPs across the board (possibly because I’ve just spread myself too thin with too many sites). But I just participated in an interesting webinar by Terry Kyle and Tom Goodwin yesterday which talked a lot about the current algo shifts. They both mentioned they haven’t seen a time before where SEO seemed so unpredictable (and both of them have been at this for years). Some things they mentioned, which I would certainly concur with, is that it’s really hard to pinpoint what’s going on right now (Carrie mentioned this above as well). Testing won’t really work in most cases either, since Google is constantly tweaking the algo, sometimes several times a day!
However, one thing that they did mentioned noticing, and I definitely have too, is that in general it seems to take longer for new link building to register (while sites seem to dance much quicker and longer when building links). It’s my best guess that your site is just dancing right now (as it has before), and in my experience, it is currently taking a little longer than it used to to stop dancing – usually two to three weeks per dance. At least my SEO client’s site is performing exactly in that way. Certain keyword groups will drop out for about two weeks and then come back. Of course, I’m no expert either – but I hope that’s what’s happening!
That said, I’ve been trying out a lot of new strategies myself just to see what happens. Although others would disagree, I certainly don’t think profile links are the culprit. In fact, I purchased a couple of Xrumer blasts from Fiverr and aimed them directly at some older (i.e. about 1 year old) money sites of mine that I haven’t backlinked for several months just to see what would happen. And guess what? They all moved up a few positions – within 24 hours! Now, I would certainly not recommend that everyone go out and start blasting their money sites with Xrumer (especially newer sites), but I’m starting to think that the best thing to do is just continue on with backlinking plan as usual and just wait for things to settle down.
Unfortunately, I think this is a period that is going to really discourage a lot of people from IM. It’s tough now, but I also think this time will eventually pass. But one thing is for sure for me – it’s just too risky to have too much wrapped up in the performance of one site, IMO (this was something Tom and Terry mentioned as well). You really need a diverse portfolio of sites – even if all in the same niche – to protect yourself.
Anyway, sorry for the super long response (should’ve been a post on my blog, I guess) but hopefully my two cents/perspective helps out a little…
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
I appreciate the long response, Michelle, and Carrie and everyone else. James I really hope the site is dancing and comes back up for you.
Ruth recently posted..An Update On My Internet Marketing Projects And What’s Still To Come
Thanks for sharing that Michelle!
Carrie recently posted..April 2011 Earnings
Hi Michelle,
What you mention about your friend’s site is something that is happening to one of my sites too – actually one I spent months and months building up. It has over 150 pages and was in position one for a long time (for many keywords), but this year every 2 weeks it disappears then comes back. Its frustrating – put so much work into it and not getting the return because of the dancing but I am leaving for now and working on other sites hoping google will sort itself out.
I don’t think I can do anything to make the situation better – my opinion is that google is just going through the menopause or something.
Hi Kelly – I could imagine that would certainly be very frustrating! Are you actively building links to it when this happens? In this case, I’m explicitly building links to several different pages right now as part of an active SEO campaign (a bit more aggressive than I do for some of my newer sites, but this is an already established site), and it’s completely expected and normal in my experience. But I would hope once the link building slows down the keywords will stop shifting around in the SERPs like they currently are doing.
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
What Michelle said. :)
Actually I’m wondering if an established site (like the one I wrote about) is considered a “safe” linking target anymore – the main difference may be that my site in question didn’t regularly receive links, I hadn’t really touched it until I was on vacation. It had been a while, just a handful of links here and there…
And I say that only because you mentioned it, M – from your reports I can see your sites dance when you build, of course, to be expected – but would you approach an older site more aggressively?
That’s what I normally do as well, thinking it’s safer to do so – no I’m not so sure. I think link velocity might have been a red-flag-raiser, but just speculating…
Just got your post in my email James and it’s clear this is on your mind. :) One interesting thing about my client’s site is that although it is an “established” (over two years old) and “authority” site (1000s of pages), it had virtually no link building done. I’m following my regular link building plan, but hitting harder (i.e. at about double the pace as I normally do), and it’s actually doing really well: going from not ranking at all for about 10 keyword – five which are super competitive (as in, not something I would ever go after), and I’m now in the top 100 for most of them, and even have a top 10 and a couple top 30 placements after six weeks time. And I’m doing it all: profile links, AMR mini blasts, blog networks, SEOLinkRobot, EzineArticles, etc. One set of keywords (for one page) will drop out of the SERPS and then come back stronger than before.
I used to see this commonly with my other sites (i.e. the Master Cleanse Journal site), when I would do more profile blasting in the past. As you know, it doesn’t bother me too much – the sites always come back, and always come back stronger. However, with the new backlinking plan/report I’ve followed for the A100K sites, what I’m seeing is much less dancing – those sites have hardly danced at all! But I start out much more slowly with the profile linking/AMR drip feeds, etc and don’t do blasts. Instead, it’s a daily thing rather than a weekly blast. Maybe that’s the difference? Does that help answer your question, James?
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
M -
I’m on your list too, as you know – and I’m a bit lost…what “new” linking plan???
I save all your emails but I missed that one or wasn’t paying too much attn when you raised it…is this different from your linking plan in your PDF?
Details, Michelle…darn it but I missed it. What’s new?
…OK. I’m done drooling. You don’t have to answer here, of course – you probably want to answer on your blog but I smell a post coming… :)
The “new” plan is what I outlined in the .pdf. Basically the difference is that before I would build links usually on a weekly basis, but now I drip feed at least my AMR and profile links out on a daily basis (50-100 a day) and that has really reduced the amount of dancing I see. However, I’m building about double the amount a day to my client’s site – and that seems to trigger some kind of filter that causes it to dance a lot more. In the end, however, the results seem to be pretty much the same – upwards movement – but if you are doing this to a site that is earning a lot from those keywords (like yours), it can be costly for it to dance a lot.
By the way, I would expect SENuke to be much more likely to cause this kind dancing than PBL, since it usually will blast a lot of links all at once instead of drip feeding them out. Have you considered this?
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
I have not done anything to my site…what happened is it just crashed this year so I got it reconsidered (after waiting for 2 weeks for something to happen) and a few days later it went up to the number 1 position..then a month later it crashed again so I got it reconsidered and it went back to the number 1 position a few days later..and then recently it crashed again..and according to that site James has put on his recent article it has a severe penalty. I have no idea why…I checked their guidelines and my site seems to be within them.
I have only added content this year and very recently a few backlinks from blog commenting. Last year I was doing regualry ezinearticles but stopped doing that a long time ago like october and it held strong until this year.
Not sure why it has a severe penalty :( but am going to get google to reconsider it again…but I can’t do that forever. I noticed one of my other sites has a severe penalty too that was a top earner – I have done nothing to that since last year but was earning aboutt £500 a month from it and now I only earn about £50. I thought this was down to the programme changing affiliate provides – as my earnings went down at the same time, but i have half the traffic I do now so maybe its a mixture of the two.
This so much sucks..what does a severe penalty even mean..I agree with you James that they should make it clearer because as far as I have seen – my site falls within their guidelines.
The same thing happened to quite a few of my sites 3 weeks ago. Some of them are slowly climbing back to where they were. But it’s taking f-o-r-e-v-e-r and there doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. I’ve looked for common themes and haven’t found any. Plus any tweaking I’ve done hasn’t seemed to help.
I agree with the above posters too — the general consensus on every blog or forum I’ve searched through seems to be that it’s going on everywhere, and there’s no pattern. I’m trying to continue on as usual, but I have to say it’s really hard to see your income vanish overnight and not panic. I feel your pain.
I know Google is making me crazy too. I was up to number 5 and my Adsense and Amazon sales were just taking off, then around the beginning of April the article that was responsible for the coming good times dropped to the mid 600′s where it has stayed ever since. The new number 1 for the term that article was starting to rank for is an Overstock.com page that has absolutely nothing to do with the search term I was targeting. Google effing sucks. Having said that, it’s pretty much the only game in town, and I, like everyone (well, almost everyone) else am just trying to figure out what pissed off the algorithm so I can avoid doing it again.
Ray recently posted..Top Reasons To Buy Pressure Cookers
Sorta glad I’m not alone. Michelle – sounds like you win this month. :)
Anyhow, I appreciate your tips as usual, M, but I’m going to have to agree with Ray. Google effing sucks…and yeah. It’s the only game in town as far as traffic.
One guy I know of at least, Splork (who thinks anyone buying SENuke was an idiot, love the guy) doesn’t seem to put much effort into his rankings, rather focuses on referral traffic…the thing is, I’m still not entirely sure how he does it.
Has some sort of web 2.0 feeder sites (WordPress is a biggie for him)…But this is what I do. I link sites. I rank them (I thought) so this one’s right between the eyes…
I do have to agree after some more reading that forum linking’s not the culprit – my sites don’t rely on them to begin with, I still got hit, despite some others’ experience which is the flat out opposite.
Rachel, Ruth and Ray – thanks for chiming in and the support. I just have to laugh at what Google’s replaced my site with (I used to have multiple listings on page one)…it’s **absolute garbage** – new EMD’s, hardly any links, with absolutely value-less content.
If this Panda update focused on “quality” then they need a new dictionary…that’s not quality content.
I don’t think it’s Google Analytics since Google can collect all the data it wants if you have Google Adsense on the site. However, if you are not using Google Adsense on a site, I would NOT use Google Analytics. Even TKA changed their mind about not using Google Analytics since they realized that if you have Adsense on a site, Google is tracking your site.
Noted, Tim…I was thinking out loud. I hadn’t paid attention or seen a pattern to those claiming this hit their AdSense sites, but on second look it’s across the board like Bruno says here.
I’m going to put AdSense back up just out of curiosity but will take that down shortly if nothing improves. No sense giving Google money when they’ve just taken mine.
Hey James,
you’re definitely not the only one that has felt this rankings change in the last few days. I have also felt and I am experiencing at least 50% down all my traffic and earnings around my AdSense websites.
Most of my websites have AdSense on it so I wouldn’t really expect a big change when you put AdSense back on them. But try it and let us know how they go.
I have also found many webmasters complaining about this latest algo change and they have also felt the same low traffic and earnings as we are experiencing. Unfortunately I do not believe this is something temporary but I shall wait to see at least one month to find out how my websites will be ranking and what traffic will I be getting from them.
Like you said there’s no real pattern for this algorithm change since all my websites are different in one way or another. For example, I have many under Statcounter and many other under analytics … Both of them have lost traffic and earnings ..
Additionally I have felt the loss in rankings in both my good websites and in some sites that I know I had bad content. once again, there’s no real pattern here. I have also read and heard about many other webmasters that have also a good content and they also felt the loss in the rankings.
I’ll let you know if anything changes or if I find anything that you might be able to check and compare with my results.
If you want to see some other people commenting about it there are this 2 links here (one mentions about this panda 2.1 update that it looks like took place one the dates that I’ve started experiencing my loss in traffic):
http://searchengineland.com/its-panda-update-2-not-3-google-says-76508
http://www.webmasterworld.com/google_adsense/4306520-7-30.htm
Cheers!
Bruno
Cheers, indeed – but thanks for the links. I heard through Michele not long ago in her newsletter that rankings shifted around the end of April…I thought it skipped me since I noticed no such changes then. My ONE site out of 15 developed is definitely the only one (and arguably my best written/researched/linked).
I don’t think it’s temporary either. But it makes no sense if you look at what’s taken the place of the good sites (and yeah, I’m talking about my site versus the chum that took my place: if you could compare, I’m telling you it’s not pride that drives me to make that comment – these sites STINK).
WTG, Google. Another epic fail.
Yeah, the SERPS are looking pretty hectic right now. I’ve also found these 2 links which have some good info about the panda update:
http://www.labnol.org/internet/google-traffic-after-panda/18914/
http://www.webuildpages.com/blog/google/google-panda-update/
There’s also an interview on Wired with Matt Cutts and Amit Singhal about the Panda update that is quite interesting. Jim mentions it in his article (link above).
keep in touch and let’s wait to see what happens from now on …
For what it’s worth – Matt Cutts recently stated on his blog that they are still tweaking the algo as they were a bit unhappy with some of the results from the Panda update. I imagine that is what happened around April 25th to a few of my sites – they all came five days later to exactly the same positions, BTW.
Although many of the major changes from the original Panda update are certainly around to stay, I think the current, almost daily flux we see right now in the SERPS is probably partially related to this. (I also read recently there are some website owners wanted to pursue a class action lawsuit based on the damages they have suffered from the Panda updates. Not sure it’s the route I’d want to go, but a lot of people are certainly suffering and mad!).
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
I’d love a class action lawsuit but money all of a sudden looks tight…go figure.
If this is an algo change or tweak (SELand and other reports confirmed it above) then I hope I do get my positions back, right now I’m less optimistic judging from several forum posts and blog comments elsewhere.
Good to hear about your sites, M. That is hopeful…this is now day 6 on my end, but nothing’s set in stone, time will tell.
In the meantime I’m sending links anyway to the site since that’s easier than developing another site altogether, which is my next step…I have a few candidates I’ll plow forward with and simply rotate stock so to speak.
Work all my sites one at a time until I can outsource a simultaneous onslaught…
I’m gonna go with you probably had too many links for a site ranking primarily long tails. With keywords with low competition it doesn’t look natural to have a lot of links. So you got sandboxed sitewide.
I’d honestly just start over, new domain, same content different words. Less linking. If not you’re looking at anywhere from a week to 6 months to get out. Never know with google. But either way you’ll be back faster on a new site, just a pain in the ass to rewrite everything. Social Bookmarking usually works well to grab the easy keywords and if you don’t have competition then you really don’t have to worry about losing ranks until you get competition.
Good guess, Ryan – but with the history of this site I find it hard to believe…Case in point, my rankings were old, so was the site – but the other sites (all EMDs and similar linking) are untouched, so why not them?
I see your point, though, Grizz was saying something similar not too long ago. Overall I had about 200 links sitewide, on a 10 page site (according to Webmaster tools which I just took off the site). According to Yahoo! it was around 200 – 240 links, so looking at my competition it’s not even like I’m the biggest link-builder…I dunno. Could be you’re right.
Natural links were thrown in en masse. But thanks for the tips, I’ll be linking and then just moving on to see what happens. There’s only so long I can mess with it before it just paralyzes my progress.
Overall I had about 200 links sitewide, on a 10 page site
With the disclaimer that I have NO clue what will or won’t help, I would suggest you add some more pages of content with no affiliate links. I don’t think this site is a lost cause, it could come back in a week or a year but I do think it is likely to reappear some day. AND, I know you are a fast writer so I can’t imagine it wouldn’t take you long to pump out 10 extra pages of content with maybe some good LSI terms. Drip it out every couple of days and don’t backlink it.
Here’s my thinking. First, your a writer so use your strengths. Bulking up the site couldn’t hurt. Having fresh content dripping out can be good and you may pick up a little extra traffic which will convert. And if the big G isn’t liking either the size or the aff link to pages ratio then you may tip the scale in your favor. And I think adding content is less risky than backlinking since I have never heard of a “too much content” penalty.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t backlink, I just think adding more content has the better chance at success. Make sense?
Carrie recently posted..April 2011 Earnings
Agreed – I think you told me that back in the day? :/
Just had a second think…will definitely be adding in shorter tails to the mix here on out as far as anchor text and content in general.
Hi James!
Things happening now explain why I’m not posting now, I never believed in the phrase “SEO expert”, and now (these panda days) it makes me laugh. Just like you said in your post..
I’m seeing a lot of low rankings across my sites – those that did me good income. There’s no clear pattern that I could track as well – some sites are totally down, some are in top 3-5. Some unlucky sites had no analytics, some had analytics, Some top-ranking sites have no analytics, some have… All of them have very diversified linking profiles, but seems it’s not the answer as well, so the only thing I’m doing now – just building new sites.
It’s very hard – it’s like we’ve put months upon months of hard work, so much heart and soul into sites, invested so much money – and it all ruined in a day!
Feeling very depressed now – every new page I write, takes me hours… I just sit up, then stop after 15 minutes of work, looking for other things to do. It’s very hard to say – OK, all our buildings runied by a hurricane, no worries, let’s just build another city!
But that’s the only thing we’re left to do. So, I’m making myself to start almost from scratch, again… All thanks to google.
You know, there’s also the only pattern I see from google – it kills the most well researched and unique sites of mine – all written personally by me, created with so much hard work. The highest quality among all my sites.
And there’s some bad luck involved as well – yes 2 of my sites are now responsible for all the income, they’re in top 3 for all keywords, but other sites that survived this hell (until today) – the products just don’t convert at all!
OK, I;m now wating until this shit stops, if ever…
Anton recently posted..Comment on Income Stats – April 2011 by Grand
That’s the feeling: hurricane just hit, let’s rebuild for the next one. Ouch – sorry to hear it’s affected your sites, too, Anton.
Okay, so you know all that I know and more but I still have some general advice with the usual disclaimer that I know nothing definite, just using common sense along with limited experience.
Knowing that you are a FT IMer that can not afford to suddenly lose your income and knowing that this is now the third “scare” where your main earner has lost rankings, I think you need a short-term and long-term plan. Short-term is some of what I mentioned above to try and resurrect your main site along with maybe working up your next best sites. Long-term plan is obvious – diversify.
As far as diversity, I use to always think in terms of other niches but diversity can also come from other sites all in the same niche. Finding a product/niche that converts is a big part of the battle that you have won, now you can hit that niche with more sites so that if one site goes AWOL you still have 5 others.
So maybe I would say short-term plan is to try and save your current site, but without spending all your time on it. Mid-term would be to duplicate that site on other domains (maybe established domains). Long-term would be to continue with the mid-term stuff and expand into other niches. And if I could write like you, I would focus mostly on pumping out content until some of the dust settles from the recent algo changes.
I know you know all this and have thought about this, but sometimes it’s nice to hear someone else agree? Of course, you know I am a more conservative, low-risk type of person so I may be completely wrong but I feel Dave Ramsey would concur :)
Carrie recently posted..April 2011 Earnings
Sage advice, well-thymed. :)
Actually I haven’t thought about Dave’s “Niche Domination” part 2 (or part one as well) but it just hit me that’s sorta what you’re talking about.
Here’s the rub, though: this site doesn’t do well (the market doesn’t) in the summer vs. winter months, it’s essentially peaked around winter, especially Dec-Jan, so I’m thinking tossing links at it more conservatively (in case I’ve been flagged for a boatload of links)…then just moving on to those niches that do well in summer that I’ve just sat on.
How many times do I have to tell you that you can’t make enough money pushing water balloons?!
Carrie recently posted..April 2011 Earnings
These are top-notch, imported Brazillian rubber from nearly extinct top notchero rubbero trees, that’s the Latin name anyway.
There’s only 3 trees in existence, the trees are old as dirt they say – and the water balloons themselves are $1.50 a pop. (get it? “pop”?)
Yeah. I’m here all week.
Hey James,
sorry that happened, it is not PBL fault. It is too many back links too quickly which raises a red flag with G. What if you wrote 500 articles and posted them all on 3rd party sites in one day, maybe the same thing will happen.
Gooogle does not penalize sites for getting too many links, if they did I could drive PBL links at my competition and mess up their rankings.
I don’t have experience with this but probably your rankings will rise again.
One new thing I’m doing so I don’t have to rely on the se’s is to promote lifetime customer commission products, as well as build a list.
That way if all the se’s disappear, so what.
The list building is something I wanted to do for this site, but not sure what that content looks like yet (it’s something that’s on my to-do list, I should put up an opt-in but right now I’m not sure how to proceed with the content for the subscribers since it’s a physical product, but definitely something I’m interested in).
I don’t know that it’s a PBL thing or not – I think the link velocity (500 links out of nowhere to an otherwise quiet site) may have been the culprit – and a lack of diversity of those links (all from one network – I’m not even sure of their IP diversity which I need to check into)…just a suspicion.
But you’re wrong that you can’t sabotage a site – you can actually, it’s something Grizz pointed out when his last site was purposefully tanked by him, by hiring SEO companies to fire links at it. Granted, most won’t sink that low, but it’s already been done.
Another place to verify this is in the Backlinks forum (backlinksforum.com) where people will send 100-300,000 links to a competitor using Scrapebox on purpose…
I probably shouldn’t share that, but it’s not really a secret in the forums. Anyhow, Grizzly’s experiment on the matter settled it for me, though he would only hint at it.
Hey James – Given what you wrote write here, I’m wondering now if maybe a competitor decided to deliberately tank your site? Have you noticed a lot of unsolicited blog comments coming in, for example?
I have to admit I kind of agree with Jeremy on this one in, that I don’t think it is possible for someone to permanently damage your site. However, some short to medium term damage can certainly be done (i.e. you can easily tank a competitor’s site for 3-6 months using Scrapebox).
From what I’ve seen, most people who use this method to tank a site use that few months period to try to bring in the cash before the competitor’s site returns and really smashes them again in the rankings. Then they move onto another target. And it seems that those who brag that they have slammed a competitor’s site (or their own) with scrapebox rarely follow up the post six months later to say what has happened.
I’d love to check up and follow up on Grizzly’s experiment too, but I can’t seem to be able to find the original post/details. You have a link…?
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
Michelle –
http://internetmarketinglessons.ca/2010/11/make-money-online-for-beginners-rip/
Read it and weep, so to speak. It can be done.
That’s just a post talking about his blogspot being flagged as spam by Google and taken down. (I’m actually surprised they left it up as long as they did). I’m talking about the SEO experiment one..There’s a huge difference between blogspot blogs (which get axed all the time) and the kind of scrapebox blasts and organic ranking stuff…
If that’s your evidence, well, not convincing to me. Just sayin’
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
That wasn’t the Scrapebox post I mentioned – just that Grizz mentions his self-sabotage by hiring others to link his site in a spammy way. Did you catch that or skim over it?
Not trying to be rude, but he mentions how he did two things – “a week ago” when the post was written, he hired out some links to go all spam happy, and then the Thursday before the post went up he did some on-site shenanigans.
My evidence comes from reading a number of posts in the WF and BLF, as well as some early experiments with UAW when I didn’t know what I was doing.
But the new thing I just found – 10 copies of my own content strewn about Google and indexed, thank you – and a clone of my original site (now sitting at #4 in Google with no backlinks….uh…sounds fishy) is pretty interesting.
It’s easy to game Google. Easy to take someone out. Clone them, publish, complain and then rewrite/publish. Cry foul. That’s where the evidence trail leads me.
Tracey Edwards did an experiment, too – re: building links without spinning anchor text – her conclusion is simply “whoops! that hurt my rankings!” and it’s nothing new.
I don’t care what Google wants us to believe, I know that building unnatural links will hurt your own site (which is why I spin my anchors).
The conclusion is pretty clear to me – hit a site without spinning anchors in an unnatural link velocity. Try it and prove me wrong.
Yeah, I read the whole post (and read it a while ago as well) and I’m pretty sure I’ve read a lot of the same BLF and WF stuff that you have read – but have come to a very different conclusion. All I’m saying in my opinion there is a big difference between a blogspot blog being flagged as spam (which happens all the time and could have easily been a content issue) and hurting someone’s organic rankings permanently by building links to their site (which Google explicitly says they don’t want to penalize).
I guess I just want to see a lot more evidence and follow up – i.e. I want to see what happens six months down the road when someone uses scrapebox, UAW or similar to tank someone’s rankings – not just what happens a week after doing a massive scrapebox blast (which we all know can blow you out of the rankings for a while). But I’m certainly not interested in arguing that point any more with you… hope your site comes back soon.
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
“The conclusion is pretty clear to me – hit a site without spinning anchors in an unnatural link velocity. Try it and prove me wrong.”
I do it all the time, with good results… :)
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
Re: the anchor text thing (since I saw my name mentioned) ;)
I’ve had sites where it has helped and others that it killed my site. I have had one site that’s now been gone for close to two years. I’ve given up on that one now for good and don’t plan on renewing the domain.
Yet sites that have had similar content where I either varied the anchor, or even just used the URL do fine – so you can’t tell me that spamming the keyword doesn’t hurt a site, in my experience it clearly does.
I’ve also seen experiments where people HAVE taken down competitors sites by spamming anchors. Of course the bigger sites probably can’t be hurt but for a small competitor, it’s quite easy to hurt their rankings.
Its not just the anchor though – that would be too simple. Link velocity is also a contributing factor, type of links, sites the links are on, content on your site, amount of aff links on your site. The algo obviously looks at more factors than just the anchor to determine whether to penalise, but for a money making site, especially an affiliate money making site you already have a few filters checked already so add one or two more and you are usually deranked if you overuse an anchor.
T
Well, all I can say is that I almost never vary my anchor text. I have tons of number one rankings, and almost no anchor text variation. In fact, the sites that I have at #1 are only the sites that I haven’t varied my anchor text – where I only target one keyword per page, and spam that one keyword exclusively. :)
Terry Kyle has done a pretty extensive experiment on this in the past as well (which you’re probably aware of) and has recommended against varying your anchor text as well on numerous occasions. But hey, not everyone agrees on one single thing in SEO, and if doesn’t work for you, then by all means vary it.
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
Resource on Terry Kyle’s opinion, for those who are interested:
http://winsonyeung.com/exclusive-interview/terry-kyle-from-backlinks-hydra/
(see point 7).
Not that this will settle if, of course… :)
Michelle recently posted..April 2011 Earnings Report
Thanks for weighing in, Tracey.
Michelle – yeah it’s one of those SEO debates that won’t go away. On my own sites I spin anchors because it’s caused more damage to my rankings than not, but maybe it was simply link velocity, type of links (I don’t do forum profiles, you might get away with it more in those types of links maybe?)…who knows for sure.
I spin anchors also to rank for various terms, though – so I used to have numerous #1 rankings per page which brings more traffic to my low-compete, low-volume terms…
I’ve had convo’s with plenty of IM experts on this matter (re: my site in particular) – the consensus is the Panda update filtered me out, probably triggered by a spike in my link volume.
But again, who knows for sure?
And I don’t mind a debate amongst friends (or otherwise, it’s a discussion darn it!). So thanks for weighing in.
>>2) Take off all analytics programs that have ties to Google. This is silly that I haven’t yet, but again: this is another theory and a lot of IMers go with StatCounter or GetClicky or whatever.
I’ve heard a lot of people say this, but it makes absolutely no sense to me for Adsense sites. If you have Adsense on a site, Google already knows your sites
So what is PaidBacklinks.com? Do they just place contextual links within their own network? If so, I think anything like this that promotes publicly with a public affiliate program is risky.
You might as well get links through something like TextLinkAds, it’s the same difference. You are paying for contextual links.
Blog networks are different, at least in my opinion, it is just another avenue to publish your content, a cheaper version of something like PRWire.
If you want to do something like PBL/TLA, you need to network with people one on one.
The consultancies that work for Fortune 500 companies do buy contextual links, (anyone that says otherwise is either delusional or lying.) But they build their own database of contacts with private site owners, ones that don’t pimp their sites out on networks like that, and place links privately.
It’s basically the same concept as a PR firm, people pay them because they have relationships with media outlets and can get stories run.
It takes a lot more legwork for something like that, but you don’t get footprints and they charge a whole lot more money per link.
>>6) SocialAdr is a social bookmarking site where other members share your stuff on their accounts
That is a service that Steve with Simple Leveraging recommends. He has a slingshotting method that he shared last year.
I’ve seen a few of my sites jump around. The main difference between the ones that have stayed stable and the ones that have bounced around is that the stable ones have a stronger tier 1 set of sites underneath it and the dancing ones don’t.
>>For what it’s worth – Matt Cutts recently stated on his blog that they are still tweaking the algo as they were a bit unhappy with some of the results from the Panda update.
@Michelle . . . Really? They caught a clue? Personally, I thought the results were worse post Panda than before.
>>Overall I had about 200 links sitewide, on a 10 page site (according to Webmaster tools which I just took off the site).
That’s really not that many links in the grand scheme of things considering the age of the site. My guess is that it just got caught in the algorithm flux.
Last year when Caffeine was rolling out, it was really hard to tell what would rank and what effects link building was having. After it finalized, it was pretty easy to see what Google wanted, in my niches anyway. I would just keep writing, keep building links, keep an eye out, and wait for the dust to settle.
I think the main thing to remember is what Google gives, Google can take away. Adsense and/or affiliate sites that are designed to just rank and earn are fun (actually, I think Adsense sites are the easiest to make money with,) but my goal is also to have a group of sites that I can build a list on as well.
With a list, you are building your own distribution channel that doesn’t depend on the vagaries of Google.
Well spoken as usual, Carla…
And I agree with you in spirit on the whole analytics thing – but I guess I read too much Aaron Wall at SEOBook.com/blog…after getting slapped like this I don’t feel like sharing the intel with Google anymore.
I love their analytics, though – hard to beat their setup, same with their website optimizer…second to none, and “free” (or is it “f.ree”?) – and I like how Webmaster Tools shows you the links Google counts (in part anyway).
As for AdSense, I’ve made more money per site with affiliate marketing on a per-word/per-page/per-site metric, which is why I figured I was following the wrong plan. Cary Bergeron from http://www.adsenseguild.com has a program for $250 I plan on getting, only because I’ve read the guy rather extensively and think he could teach me what I don’t already know about AdSense and site flipping, among other things…
So AdSense IS the easy money, by far one of the easiest, FWIW – I just have a love/hate relationship with Google right now that sides a bit less on love…and still can’t figure out why I want to build 100 sites that each make $10 a month (as the older programs all claimed, something like that). Cary is about the only voice in the AdSense field that makes me tempted to get back into that (well, him and Lisa Parmley from http://www.inlineseo.com).
For anyone who wants the easy money and doesn’t feel like selling affiliate products, have at it, it’s definitely a viable income stream – just not my speed. The more I say that, the more I think I sound snooty.
Not trying to, I just feel like AdSense cheats you out of the real money – is that a fair way to put it without sounding like I’m thumbing my nose at AdSense publishers? (BTW, I still am one of those!)
I do have some questions, though, Carla:
As an AdSense publisher, have you followed any ebook or program on the matter? Any recommendations?
Also: do you prefer that to affiliate marketing?
And lastly: how would you propose to build a list for a site that has primarily physical products (CJ + Amazon mostly)?
My thoughts on the last: to send out coupons and any news or links to help those in the niche – like if you had a biking site, for example: you could email major marathon news, headlines from the biking niche, coupons to bikes and bike-related purchases, etc…
I guess it just sounds like a lot more work to me vs. a passive income stream, but you’re right that it’s Google-proof and a smart move in general.
For Adsense, my favorites are Lisa Parmley, Cary Bergeron, Fraser Cain, and John Robinson (Xfactor) – His new stuff is awesome. You should really check out this interview with Fraser Cain where he talks about the fact that he doesn’t create backlinks.
http://thinktraffic.net/zero-link-building-seo-strategy-with-fraser-cain
>>Not trying to, I just feel like AdSense cheats you out of the real money
You obviously get more per sale in affiliate marketing, Adsense is just easy. :)
Actually, Adsense was the very first *passive* income I made online, so I think I’ll always be an Adsense girl.
>>And lastly: how would you propose to build a list for a site that has primarily physical products (CJ + Amazon mostly)?
Well, that’s the rub. All site models don’t lend themselves to building a list and a following. No one is going to sign up for a mailing list for pink diaper pails. If you follow the original X Factor model with an EMD and a thin content site, you are always going to have to depend on the SERP’s and Google.
Which is why my goal is to have a mix of sites.
>>As an AdSense publisher, have you followed any ebook or program on the matter? Any recommendations?
Not really, I read a lot and then kind of do my own thing. I have some X-Factorish type sites, but I don’t do the ugly layouts and I keep building up the content until they earn a decent amount.
Regardless of the “program,” it boils down to finding keywords that advertisers are bidding on that aren’t too competitive, writing content, and building backlinks.
Jacob/Initial Effort has some great posts on Backlinksforum.com about earning with Adsense.
Ranking = Clicks = Cash. It doesn’t get much easier.
With affiliate marketing, you have to find the buyer keywords, write copy that sells, funnel the focus . . . there are just a lot more elements to master.
Agreed on the simplicity of AdSense. I’m into Cary B from AdSense Guild simply for his other modules – like selling blogs for thousands, treating them as investment properties and the like.
Especially given the sabotage on this site in question, I could have sold it for $30-50k at least.
Anyway – I’ve found further dubious things, including the identity of a guy who cloned my site. Totally cloned it. Which makes me wonder if I should shut this blog down asap…
Sorry to hear that James, been getting up to date on feeds after being away and that is sucky to say the least.
Hopefully it will return soon enough, this is a fickle business to say the least.
Well you made comment on my blog.
http://rahulbuzz.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/the-end-of-web-2-0-challenge/#comment-80 To make big authority sites. Which can make tons of money. But only risk is when you loose them. You don’t have options.
2) Well i will be making some money. I will again make network of site which cannot be tracked by Google, analytics and these are like backup sites.
I hope you site will get back ranking in one month or so.. don’t worry. because it is not deindexed.
I suggest you to create 25 big sites for long term purpose. Don’t associate each of the and link from same sources. Plz use one more laptop/internet connection. Don’t ever open any google accounts which you are using from other your daily net connections.
Thanks
Rahul recently posted..100k Blue Print Is this possible
Rahul -
Yeah, I think you mentioned there you’d be doing a mix. I still recommend making every page count, and having bigger sites with more content versus having 100 websites or 300 websites, it’s simply a lot more to handle and the quality goes down at those levels.
It’s much easier to manage 20 websites, for example, and build them out properly, even sell the winners before they outlive their shelf life so to speak…sell them in their prime and move on. I’m going to be moving in that direction anyway.
Yes i do agree. I have identified first 35 websites to be launched. 20 of them will be very easy to rank in the top. Yes, i will be making 10-30 pages good websites.
Thanks